Believe it or Not... (Don't Read This If You Don't Think Everyone is Allowed Their Own Opinion)

[queenoftheskies]

Not all children are bad and evil and misbehave.

Not all parents are lazy and fat and have more and more kids so they can sit at home and not work and get money for them.

Some children are raised right. Some are responsible. Some do nice things and have manners and are kind to people. Some love their parents very much. Some would never consider running around screaming in public or knocking people down.

Some children are good citizens. Some children give blood and do community/charity work. Some kids work really hard in school and get good grades. Some kids go to college. Some kids chip in the money from their jobs to support the household.

Some kids grow up to be wonderful people and very responsible adults.

Some kids grow up to have children of their own. Some kids grow up to be childfree...sometimes it's even because they've seen how hard their own parent(s) had to work to support them and know it might not be the role for them.

Some parents may not be the best parents in the world, but they love their children and they try really, REALLY hard to be the best that they can. Both for the sake of their children and because they want their children to be those wonderful people and responsible adults.

Not everyone should have kids. It's easy to tell that by going to the store or a restaurant or to a school event where there are lots of terrible kids and even worse parents.

If you don't want kids, that's YOUR business. I wish more people DIDN'T have kids. Most people are LOUSY parents.

But, if you don't like people telling you that you SHOULD have kids, maybe you should think that people who HAVE kids don't like you talking crap about them when they're being RESPONSIBLE parents. (I'm not talking about the parents who deserve bad talk.) But, just like all childfree folks aren't created equal, neither are all parents.

NOT ALL PARENTS AND THEIR KIDS ARE BAD.

I support EVERYONE's right to choose what they want to do with their own life.

Don't tell me that ALL kids are bad or that ALL parents are lazy and want to sit at home all day and have more kids to get money.

I work my ass off to support mine and to also find the time to spend with then because I love them and because raising them RIGHT is MY responsibility.

I don't ask for your sympathy. I don't ask for your approval. I wanted kids. I love my kids. I expect my kids to behave. I knew kids were hard work when I decided I wanted them. I don't mind the hard work.

One thing is for sure. My kids certainly don't bad-mouth people/specific groups of people the way you do. My kids know not to be prejudiced. My kids know that every situation is NOT created equal.

***This was prompted by some things I've read (yes, some here on LJ) and heard recently and is not directed at any one person or group. I just needed to get it out of my system.***

Comments

[beth-bernobich.livejournal.com]

I feel *exactly* the same way. Thank you for posting this.

[moonlit-page.livejournal.com]

I really couldn't agree more. Childfree people that kid- and parent-bashed used to irk the shit out of me, then I realized something:

Those people? Are throwing tantrums about children throwing tantrums because they want all the attention, because they're not done acting like little kids.

So I laughed at them and stopped paying attention, thinking: PLEASE, *don't* contribute to the gene pool. At least little kids have the excuse of being little kids when they get frustrated and act out.

^_^

[dragonmyst.livejournal.com]

adults who through tantrums were kids whoes parents gave in to them...In my humble opinion.

My kids learned early that at most a tantrum will lose them any 'treats' they might have been getting. Yes I have no tolorance for rude behavior from my kids, I remember my mom whooping my butt in a safeway when I threw a tantrum as a small child. I don't remember ever throwing another one. I might have, but I don't remember :P.

[dragonmyst.livejournal.com]

I couldn't have said it better. My kids aren't perfect, neither am I but we all try to improve ourselves. My kids are loving mostly well-mannered kids. They do have their moments but I have no fear of taking four small (ages 7, 5, 4, 3) out in public or to a resteraunt because my kids know how to behave. I guess I have done something right as a parent ;)

[dragovianknight.livejournal.com]

And MOST childfree will thank you for teaching your kids how to behave.

Heck, the other day I was eating out and a family of five (mom, dad, 3 young children) came in. I braced to have my dinner ruined, especially when they got a table near me. Luckily, there was no screaming, no whining, no crying, and no running around. Hell, the kids were less intrusive than the four adults on my other side (who were holding forth on how the schools have enough money but the teachers just "aren't dedicated enough", but that's a rant for another day ::eyeroll::). The woman and I were paying at the same time, and I swear to god, I was so grateful to her and her husband for the way they raised those kids, I'd happily have given them both oral sex if they'd asked.

[cicadabug.livejournal.com]

Sounds like you've had a Loudmouthed Idiot Encounter. My sympathies; those always set me off too.

I still get a lot of that crap (more when my daughter was younger). There's a general assumption in most people's minds that single mom == irresponsible, bad parent, poor, lazy, etc. It doesn't seem to matter that reality often clearly contradicts those prejudices; some people just can't be flexible or open enough to recognize when they're just plain wrong. Worse, I think a big part of the current movement in this country towards conservative christianity wants/needs to paint single mothers that way because to acknowledge that single parent families or families with gay parents could be successful undermines their position that their way is the Only Way. That stupid Indiana law that almost passed (and which would have barred me from becoming a parent) is a prime example of the whole we-know-better-than-you attitude, and it is being inflicted on every aspect of parenting from working mothers to women who nurse in public or people who have chosen to have more than two kids (or who have chosen to not have any) or to have them later in life or... well, it goes on and on.

I didn't become a single mom because of stupidity or greed or lack of morality or any of those motives. I choose to have my daughter because I wanted someone I could give the world to. My daughter is happy, healthy, bright, creative, generous, and kind. So I'd have to say we're doing fine. (-:

[queenoftheskies.livejournal.com]

Yes, I've had more than my share of comments on being a single mom.

And, you know what? People cannot understand when I tell them I left my husband because he was cruel and abusive and lazy (stopped working) and beat the kids.

You wouldn't believe how many religious people (my parents included) told me I had to stay with him because the Bible said I had to. Even though he was cruel and abusive, wouldn't work, and beat the kids.

Can you believe that?

Hello...people...what planet are you on? Not the same one I'm on, that's for sure.

I put up with it for 13 years...until there started being suspicions of him committing sexual child abuse (with two of my kids). And, then, I left.

That's so wonderful about you and your daughter. It's nice to hear happy stories. How old is she now? :)

[spaceoperadiva.livejournal.com]

Thanks for that. I read through a diatribe here on lj on this very subject today myself. I managed to back away from the keyboard and not post a snarky retort, but it was hard, I tell you. Hard. :)

[the-faery-queen.livejournal.com]

its true, but unfortunatly society doesn't agree with that. society thinks that its a right to have kids, which it is, but in that right everyone has to pay for everyone else. and you work hard to support them, and you spend time with them, and you look after them, because you're intellegent and rational and care about your kids. a lot more people don't, and they just sponge. and even those that are responsible and do take care of their kids, still shouldn't get extra benefits that are paid for by everyone else. my own rant on this was about 6 month paid paternity leave for fathers, AND the same for mothers. and i am never going to think it is ok that people who chose to have kids, and therefore should work out how they are going to take care of them themselves, teh way my parents had to, should get a 6 month stay at home holiday, at someone elses expense, so they can bond with their kid. yes they want to bond, i get that. yes they deserve the right to stay home with their kids, i get that too, but other people shouldn't have to pay for it. also in the uk we have introduced 250 pounds voucher for every child born. so every single child in thsi country, under a certain age, gets trust fund money. we weren't asked about this, and i am really not happy with the idea of giving tax money to someone elses kid because they didn't bother to save for their child's future themselves!

so yeah. not all parents are bad. but society does lean towards families and that is what annoys childfree people. that we come second to parents with kids. that our money goes to making their lives better, and we are generally forgotten. and yes, some people are responsible, as i said, but others aren't! and there is no system for taking care of it, because society is all about families. families are important. so you can have as many kids as you want and someone else will pay. and even if you only have one kid, and you're responsible and hard working, other people are still paying towards it. at least in this country. child benefit, for example. its no longer about good parents and bad parents and people sponging, for me its about more and more policies giving families benefits at the expense of childfree single people.

so yeah, that's my opinion basically. everyone has the right to have kids, but i don't seem to have the right to not pay for that.

[beth-bernobich.livejournal.com]

...a 6 month stay at home holiday...

::dies laughing::

Oh, dear. A holiday? That is so funny, even if you didn't mean to be.

[britzkrieg.livejournal.com]

I am staunchly childfree, but I have to take issue with the statement that giving special breaks to families benefits only those families. "No man is an island," after all. The squalling brat in the restaurant today could be your doctor tomorrow -- but only if her basic needs are met and society invests in her education and enrichment.

[queenoftheskies.livejournal.com]

It's definitely NOT that way in the U.S.

We do NOT get 6 month paid maternity OR paternity leave. By law, you can take 8 weeks off, I think. However, if the company you work for is under a certain size, they do NOT have to hold your job for you. YOU LOSE IT!!!

Maternity leave is generally NOT paid by companies. IF you're lucky enough to live in a state that has a disability program (IF...that's a BIG if), then you can get disability. Which, I must add, is NOT AT ANYONE ELSE'S EXPENSE BUT YOUR OWN. If you're lucky enough to live in a state with disability, IT COMES OUT OF YOUR OWN CHECK FOR AS LONG AS YOU WORK IN THE STATE. You can use it for illness, you can use it for maternity leave, you can never use it if you never need it. You never get it back.

NOBODY ELSE PAYS FOR YOU TO HAVE YOUR CHILD AND TAKE THE MATERNITY LEAVE OFF.

Nobody in this country gives your child a trust fund. If you want them to attend college, YOU PAY FOR IT YOURSELF. Or they get a job!

NOBODY pays for my children's food and clothes and sheleter (etc., etc.) EXCEPT FOR ME!!! Who else is going to pay for it? Do you think the government? No! Do you think some kind person will come up on the street and give me money? No!

And, that's the way it should be. If I have kids, I should pay for them MYSELF. And, by god, I DO!!!

The only place that a family MIGHT get a break is on their income taxes. But, you know what? People get a break on their taxes for being married. Does that mean that nobody should get married and that everyone else is paying for them to get married???

AND...in this country now, you get PENALIZED on your taxes if you are "head of household", which means only one parent in the family. So, NO, I don't get a break on my taxes. I pay MORE.

So, I'd sure like to know who's paying for me to have kids and who I'm inconveniencing financially by having them.

Cause, heck, if somebody is supposed to be giving me money, who are they???

[cicadabug.livejournal.com]

Six month holiday! Yowza! I want to live on your planet!

Seriously... isn't it true that everyone, whether a parent or a childless person, was once a child themselves? Instead of thinking of these things as being benefits for parents, think of them as being benefits for the children. Without whom, whether or not you want to parent one yourself (and I have no problems with people who opt not to), our society would fall apart? If society leans towards families (and I'd actually disagree with that in large part) it is because that without a next generation there IS NO society anymore. Unless we are willing to embrace thoroughly selfish disregard for the future of our culture/country/species, isn't it in *all* our best interests to do what we can to try to get the next generation off to the best start we can?

In point of fact, at least here in the US, by far the majority of people who are on welfare are on it for six months or less*, and get off it themselves despite how difficult we make it for people to do so. Very few people are "spongers". Yes, there are some. All systems have someone who abuse things. But the notion that poor people or single parents are somehow taking away from the 'rest of us' is an idea that is propagated by business interests and certain political interest groups as a way to justify totally screwing people out of what little they might have.

To my thinking, we don't do enough to support the people in society who most need help -- be they disabled, elderly, poor, or very young. I don't want to live in a world that's all and only about Numero Uno.

(*this may have changed, given the shit state of our economy right now, but it was true pre-Bush)

Go You!

[writerbythebay.livejournal.com]

I'm glad you posted this and I'm sorry you had such an awful encounter!

Not everyone should have kids. Personally, having kids was the best choice I ever made!

There are great parents out there and horrible parents out there.
There are great kids and down right monsters too.

Everyone has different circumstances and until you walk a mile in someone else's shoes it's better to keep bad opinions to one's self.

GO YOU!

[frigg.livejournal.com]

Weeeell, I hope it wasn't my recent rant about voluntary childlessness that brought this on. :)

I don't feel particularly tageted, but if it was then feel free to vent at me directly. *grin*

Sooo...opinions from one of these people who doesn't not want kids of her own:

First of all: Yes, I do get annoyed when people tell me to have kids. I mean, I'm not going around telling people not to have kids.

I like children. 90% of all the children I know are delightful, but then so are their parents.

If anything annoys me, then it is that some parents think it is their god-given right to let their children do as they please, because they are only children. And every one else, who just happen to be in the vicinity of a four year old throwing a 4 hour tantrum because he cannot have another cookie (yes, I've tried that) just have to put up with it, because otherwise we're inconsiderate childless, abnormal people.

I also find it annoying when C and I go to a restaurant to enjoy an evening out, and we literally have to shout to each other across the table because the children from the table at the back are running up and down the floor, screaming at the top of their lungs, bumping into the waitors and waitresses. I don't blame the kids, but I do blame the parents. If your children are too young or can't behave under such circumstances, then please get a baby-sitter/go to a more child-friendly place/stay at home. Parenting is also about making sacrifices.

Of course, if I can see that the parents are doing their best and struggling with an overtired child, then it's a different situation all together, but both the above examples were not such cases.

Being a Dane where we do not pay directly for our childrens' education, the child versus support issue goes the other way: The children of today are those who will be paying my pension tomorrow. I have nothing against parents receiving the annual child-support checks, or my friends taking 1 year maternety leave.

[frigg.livejournal.com]

Ouch! Please ignore typos and horrid grammar. It's late. *blush*

[britzkrieg.livejournal.com]

If anything annoys me, then it is that some parents think it is their god-given right to let their children do as they please, because they are only children. And every one else, who just happen to be in the vicinity of a four year old throwing a 4 hour tantrum because he cannot have another cookie (yes, I've tried that) just have to put up with it, because otherwise we're inconsiderate childless, abnormal people.

Agreed. I resent that, too.

[queenoftheskies.livejournal.com]

I agree with you COMPLETELY.

And, no, I was not targeting you. I enjoy your posts very much. :)

And, now that you mention it, our own social security system is in so much danger that I know IF I ever retire and get it, it'll be my kids paying for it. :)

[dragovianknight.livejournal.com]

Amen to that.

[fancythat2.livejournal.com]

I agree with you completely.
AND if the child is overtired, in a "Mood", hungry or ill I would hope that the parents would have pity on the child and the populace and take the child home.

[(Anonymous)]

If you think kids get a bad rap, imagine how us adults feel.

[reannon.livejournal.com]

I've run into the child-free community once or twice, and it infuriated me for an entire day. I don't understand people who scream about how evil children are and how stupid parents are. It's like they simply don't remember that EVERY HUMAN BEING was once a child, and had parents of whatever quality. As for the state subsidizing child-rearing... when I finished laughing... Consider that in the U.S. we consider universal health care to be a fundamental right only for senior citizens, who have had sixty-five years to plan for their retirement, but not for children, who are incapable of supporting themselves and are totally at the mercy of their parents' income and/or maturity.

[dragovianknight.livejournal.com]

Honey, *I* can't stand most of the childfree communities, and I'm militanty childfree.

Good mom with bratty babe.

[batdog03.livejournal.com]

Okay I think I am a pretty good mom. Most people say I am to uptight and not patient enough with my daughter (6 years old), but every one tends to agre that I do my bst and they can tell I love her. However, my daughter is not very well mannered. She is extremmy loving, tries to remember to say please and thank you, and would never dream of hurting anothr person, or animal. With that said, she has not concenpt of space and has never met a stranger. She asks rude questions (What does your breath stink?), she never hesitates to say her opinion (you look realy old, you should ye your hair.), and she crawls onto your lap if youe ven smile at her.

Beyond the obivious dangers of this, she is considered a 'bad kid, a brat, or even a little beast'. She loves everyone. She is one of those kids that will turn into one of those adults that everyone looks up to, if she lives that long! (Not implying she is in danger, but the 'you are gonna get beaten kid if you don't git outa that fridge this instant' kind of dead.)

Sorry folks, not all brats are bad:D

*claps*

[lousy-timing.livejournal.com]

I want to meet you someday and thank you for being my kind of mom.

[java-fiend.livejournal.com]

You're right... some people *shouldn't* be parents. You are a great mother, Miss J. You always put your kids first and they are always first and foremost in your thoughts. There are a lot of people that are completely selfish and should have forgone having kids because they see them as a burden.

I agree with most everything you say in this post. But I think if you have children, then you damn well better live up to that responsibility. More times than not though, I think that bad children, come as a result of bad parenting. Perhaps not in all cases, but I'd say mostly.

I'm choosing to remain childfree. I just don't think it's right for me. I could change my mind, but at this point, I don't see it happening.

For some reason though, there are as many people who have kids that talk shit about those of us without kids as there are the other way. To a lot of people, having children is the pinnacle of responsibility or something and they seem to think that if you don't have kids, you're defective. They shower you with pity and that drives me batshit. Just as it's not my place to go point out to somebody that they shouldn't be parents, who they hell are they to condemn or pity me for not having kids?

So do tell... what touched off this rant?

[dragovianknight.livejournal.com]

they seem to think that if you don't have kids, you're defective. They shower you with pity and that drives me batshit.

::nod nod nod::

And if not pity, then condescension, as if you aren't a real adult because you don't have kids.