First Things First

[queenoftheskies]

Only because I get the feeling that people think I've been bashing the class instructor and that they think he said I should change my character, I have to set the record straight.

My earlier posts were all about ME feeling bad because he thought something was laughable. Quoted straight from my earlier post:

All because a professional told me that something in my universe was laughable and I got upset.

What I'm saying here is NOT that he did something wrong. He did NOTHING wrong. Not one single thing. NOTHING.

My point is that I have not enough self-confidence and that this upset me.

My point is that maybe my ideas are too stupid to be written.

And, that upsets me. No matter how good (or badly) I write, if my ideas are stupid, what good am I as a writer?

That's the entire point.

That said, some people asked for more evidence of what was stupid. I'll post my plot points, but I'm not going to leave the post up for long because there are people on my FL who take every opportunity they can to laugh at me and...well, that's what this is all about.

Comments

[merebrillante.livejournal.com]

I may be putting my foot (or even my face) in it with this comment, but if people on your friends list who take every opportunity to laugh at you, why are they on your "friends" list?

[queenoftheskies.livejournal.com]

Honestly? I don't know.

They're writers and I like to read about other writers and their work and their writing process.

And, I guess I just hope I'll get over this and what people say won't bother me any more.

However, because I guess I'm a coward, I'm learning to set up filters right now so that only the people who asked about what I was plotting can see the scene list. :)

[magicnoire.livejournal.com]

I'll post my plot points, but I'm not going to leave the post up for long because there are people on my FL who take every opportunity they can to laugh at me

This is going to sound very very rude but if they do that, why are they on your flist?

[merebrillante.livejournal.com]

Ahh. Gotcha.

[mimerki.livejournal.com]

What everyone else said...

Because anyone you feel is looking for an excuse to laugh at your ideas isn't someone you need. Because you (generic) need the stupid ideas if you're going to have the brilliant ones. And while it may be useful to have people who are willing to say to you "Hey, this idea is kinda silly sounding..." if they're being mean about it they aren't actually helping. (Plus, a lot of ideas that are good in practice sound silly when stated on their own.)

I'd like to be on the filter to see your plot points, but I also recognize that I'm effectively a stranger.

[queenoftheskies.livejournal.com]

Mostly, I have writers friended because I like to read about other people's work, their process, their successes.

I guess just because they're writers.

Sometimes, though, I guess since I'm not as good as they are, they must use me to make themselves feel superior.

[iagor.livejournal.com]

From what you posted, I don't think he was laughing. I think he felt it was an unnecessary moment in the narrative. Before you go an rip out something that might be great over a single comment, are you sure in your interpretation of said comment? :)

[queenoftheskies.livejournal.com]

Thanks for your interest.

I put you on the filter. I hope it works!

[queenoftheskies.livejournal.com]

Yes, I am sure about my interpretation. That was clear.

I'm not disputing that he's correct either.

I'm going to post my scene list.

[kuroshii.livejournal.com]

some people asked for more evidence of what was stupid

oh, so now you're saying the instructor thought an aspect of what you wrote was stupid?!

i'm guessing that's not what you meant. ;) laughing at isn't the same as saying something's laughable, and neither of those are the same as saying something's stupid. methinks you're internalizing. stop that!

yes, please build a filter and let us know "exactly" what he said and what he was saying it about, so we can understand. :)

[queenoftheskies.livejournal.com]

No, no, he didn't say it was stupid.

I'm down on myself right now, and I'm saying it's all stupid.

I need to clarify what I say.

[dracschick.livejournal.com]

*hugs*

As a writer myself, I try to be supportive of other writers.

do take care,
Chris

[silk-noir.livejournal.com]

Oh, honey, do I understand? Yes.

It makes one want to hide one's head in a bag and never write again. You don't have to post anything you don't want to.

I just got told by someone whose opinion I value highly that my story, the one I've been working on since the beginning of May, isn't a good story.

Stupid electric oven.

[queenoftheskies.livejournal.com]

I try really hard and don't ask to be the best. Some day, I just want to be good, you know?

I posted my scene list, but filtered it so only the people who actually asked to see them could see them.

I hadn't ever used filters before. I feel powerful now...I learned how to do something new.

How do you, personally, deal with someone telling you your story isn't good?

And, BTW, I have a difficult time believing that. You're very passionate about your writing.

But, if you'd like another opinion, I'll be happy to read. :)

[kuroshii.livejournal.com]

s'okay. i've internalized enough stuff in my own life to understand when it happens. just please don't be mad when i call you on it! i'm only trying to help you get OUT of a very destructive behavior.

::hugs::

[cyberwuzzle.livejournal.com]

I've had lots of industry professionals tell me my ideas sucked (not in so many words, but you know what I mean.) Editors, authors, agents. If you take one manuscript and let ten different people read it, they'll all come back with a different opinion.

I know it's a difficult balancing act. But it's impt to take people's opinions and use them to critique your work in honest way...while still being true to YOUR voice and YOUR vision.

Easier said than done, I know.

*Hugs*

[kuroshii.livejournal.com]

any psychologist/psychiatrist will tell you that the "need" to knock someone else down in order to feel superior comes from a feeling of inadequacy. in other words, they're scared that you might get better than they are (or might already be!) and they can't stand it!

[ckocher.livejournal.com]

I would love to be in on this filter. Frankly, I've wanted the chance to read your writing for the longest time because you are one of the few writers whose LJ I read that truly conveys a sense of joy about the whole thing. No matter the obstacles in your way, your love and passion for writing comes across so easily. So yeah, please add me to the filter.

[queenoftheskies.livejournal.com]

Why, thank you. That's very kind.

I appreciate that. I love writing very much.

I'll add you to the filter. (But, I hope you're not disappointed.)

[pjthompson]

As others have said, anyone who tries to make you feel stupid or lectures you in a condescending or patronizing way is not a "friend." And if they talk to you in that way, it may be because they want to make themselves feel good and "superior." But they're not. They're just condescending. Their input is probably not all that valuable. Good critiquers, it seems to me, care as much about supporting the writer and making the writer feel like carrying on and doing better as they do about pointing out all the flaws of the work. Critiques need to be balanced, I think, or they are all about the critiquer being on an ego trip.

[mark-west.livejournal.com]

Self-confidence - as silly as it might be to mention it - isn't something that happens overnight and even writers who have been professionally published for years still suffer (at last years FantasyCon, I sat in on a panel with Simon Clark who gave me the impression that each time he sent a book off, it was like the first time!).

If your ideas are too stupid, so what? Learn what's stupid about them, work around them, push yourself for more ideas.

I'd be interested to see your plot points, to see if there's anything I can say or do to help and I would also get rid of those people on your F List who would make fun. Writing is hard enough as it is, you don't need that kind of help!

[spaceoperadiva.livejournal.com]

I'm coming in very late here, but my thoughts anyway:

It's hard to shake off negative feelings about our own work/negative thoughts/taking criticism very hard. It's something we have to keep on working on because rejection, criticism and sometimes even nastiness is part of the writing/critting/submitting process. Rupert Smilely at you, woman! (Repeat after me: I'm good enough, I'm smart enough and darn it, people like me!)

One person's opinion, no matter who they are, is simply one person's opinion. Some people's opinions carry more weight because they have a greater experience base to give opinions from but even those people aren't infallible. We've all heard stories of publishers passing on best sellers and studios passing on award-winning scripts. IMO, you should carefully and dispassionately consider what they have to say and then decide what you're going to do about it. And that might be-- nothing or revision, depending what *your* gut tells you.

[silk-noir.livejournal.com]

Rejections:

'You're welcome to Le Carre - he hasn't got any future'

- on John Le Carre's The Spy Who Came In From the Cold

'We are not interested in science fiction which deals with negative utopias. They do not sell.'

-on Carrie by Stephen King

'We are very impressed with the depth and scope of your research and the quality of your prose. Nevertheless ... we don't think we could distribute enough copies to satisfy you or ourselves.'

- on Jean Auel's Clan of the Cave Bear

[queenoftheskies.livejournal.com]

While it's often a relief to know that other people share the same problem, I'm very sorry for them at the same time. :)

I'm working on self-confidence, but sometimes, I still get knocked down, you know?

Thanks for the encouragement.

I put you on the filter, so the scene list posts I made earlier should show up for you now.

Thanks. :)

[dsgood.livejournal.com]

"They're writers and I like to read about other writers and their work and their writing process."

So do I. But well before the Internet, I discovered that some of my favorite writers, when they wrote in sf fanzines, were people I didn't want to know in interactive print.

In one case: I liked X's writing, I liked him in person -- but in non-professional print, he was one of the dumbest political fanatics around.

[dsgood.livejournal.com]

I'd like to be added to the filter, but I don't guarantee that I'll comment.

[dsgood.livejournal.com]

Non-rejection advice from knowledgeable professionals:

"Nothing odd will do for long. Tristam Shandy did not last." Samuel Johnson; among other things, author of the novel Rasselas.

-"Steve, if you get yourself typecast as a horror writer, you'll die in poverty the way Lovecraft did."- Stephen King's first agent.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

I have been having a conversation with katallen on jmeadows's journal about some ideas being too bad to have more time spent on revising them, and how I would rather hear that from my critiquers than have them keep it to themselves if they truly feel that way.

Since I've never critiqued for you, I really do hope that it's clear that I was talking about 1) theoretical ideas unconnected to any particular person and 2) some specific ideas I personally have had but NOT any idea you have or have had in the past.

I also hope that it's clear that I am telling katallen about a preference that I hold for critiques of my work specifically, not a moral stance that I believe everyone should hold.

But because you're talking about this topic, I wanted to comment to try to make it clear that this is a coincidence of timing and not in any way intended to be critical of you or your writing or the ideas behind it. I would hate to have a coincidence of timing give you the wrong impression and make you feel worse about your writing or yourself.

[gategrrl.livejournal.com]

I've never had a pro editor or writer review or comment on my writing. It's only been in the past two-three years where I became brave enough to actually let anyone read my stories *at all*.

Personally, I think you're gutsy and brave to put yourself out there in a face2face class with a pro writer. It's hard to distance yourself to the point earlier in the process than you're used to, and let what is a developing idea be critted.

[queenoftheskies.livejournal.com]

Added. :)

[kythiaranos.livejournal.com]

Probably someone's already told you this, but remember that even if this instructor's opinion is one you think deserves respect, it is still only one person's opinion. You can always change things in rewrite. That doesn't make you *or* your ideas stupid.

*hugs*

[queenoftheskies.livejournal.com]

I posted them over the weekend. I'll put you on the filter so they'll show up.

I'm very discouraged and trying to come up with a new story that's not stupid and convoluted now.

But, I think the heat and being tired are making it all worse.

I'm getting very stubborn and just refusing to work on it. That's NOT good.