Genre

[queenoftheskies]

I've been wanting to post a genre topic/question for a while, but have been pretty out-of-it lately, so I'm just getting around to it today.

I understand genre, of course, in the broadest of senses. I know the difference between different types of novels.

My questions arise when we try to break down specific genres further into sub-classes and also in trying to peg a specific genre for works that would fit into one or more genres.

Or, perhaps what I don't understand, specifically, is, when we're talking about speculative fiction, what elements peg a manuscript as SF, Fantasy, or Horror?

Yes, yes, I know the broad definitions. However, are there some elements that transcend the barriers between the two?

I know there are sub-classes to each. Are the sub-classes often a mixture, where the lines blur? For example, isn't dark fantasy often a combination of both fantasy and horror elements?



I guess I pretty much started out as thinking of my work (most of it) as fantasy because of magical elements involved. But, instead of writing about wizards and elves and trolls and goblins, my magic-users are primarily aliens. I also have ancient civilizations, which I hear is a peg for SF.

HOWEVER...in the novels I'm working on right now, they take place on present day Earth. (Not all of the novels in the series will, but a great many of them do.)

And, now, in an effort to explain one aspect of my universe, both to myself and my reader, and have everything make complete sense, I have involved my Physics major son in creating scientific theories behind this universe.

So, does that make what I'm writing SF?

I don't really have a lot of tech involved, though perhaps there are some underlying elements that connect with the magic use. They're not really intrusive into the story, in my opinion.


Now, I guess the next question is, do I need to be able to categorize my novels to market them? Or will the query letter/synopsis be enough information for the agent/publisher to make that decision on their own?

Here's why I ask. When I was screenwriting, the genre was a necessary part of the query letter. You were required to state that in your letter.

Is it the same in novel queries? Or do you just lead off with your logline (is that term used in novel query?)/synopsis/general query information.

Also, here's another difficult determination for me. I wrote a screenplay that involved "super powers". Where does that fall in the grand scheme of things? For screenwriting purposes, it was categorized "action/adventure". Somehow, in novelized form, I feel it would be different.

Perhaps this is all glaringly obvious, but I'd appreciate any, and all, opinions.

Thanks. :)

Comments

[unwrecked.livejournal.com]

Sounds like SF to me, for your novels. Aliens pretty much makes it SF, I'd say.

Super powers, as in Superman, are more fantasy.

I don't think you need to worry too much about categories -- just describe the book to the editor or agent you're querying, and they'll figure out what category it fits into...

[ammepyre.livejournal.com]

As far as marketing goes the most important thing is to find out which agent/publishers are dealing with books semi-similar.

Genre wise it sounds almost slipstream-ish which to my way of understanding is sort of a catch-all for stories with elements of SF, Fantasy that don't find the general niches.

[peartreealley.livejournal.com]

It sounds like sociologicial sf, which is sf that focuses on culture rather than Cool New Ideas and Technology. Think CJ Cherryh and Anne McCaffery, who are both sometimes thought of as fantasy, but are actually writing about aliens.

[dsgood.livejournal.com]

I recommend joining the words_in_common community (if you're not already a member) and asking on the associated mailing list or in the community. For more information on submitting, I recommend going to http://sfwa.org, which probably has links to such info. And the market list at http://ralan.com, where you can find out what particular publishers say they want.

"Science fiction is what we mean when we point to it." Damon Knight.

Write it first; worry about publishing category afterwards. For one thing, by the time you're ready to submit the categories may have changed.

Superpowers: In written spec-fic, it largely depends on what you call them. If they're called magic, the story is probably fantasy. If they're called psi (outdated) or nanotechnology, or something else which sounds Scientific, the story is probably sf. In comics, "superhero" is its own category.

Ancient civilizations can be either sf or fantasy.

If there are spaceships in the story, this week the category is probably science fiction. Even if the spaceships are run by magic. A few decades ago, stories with both advanced technology and magic were usually science fantasy (a term also used for several other things), aka "swords and spaceships".

However, it's quite possible that your novels will turn out to be paranormal romances; part of the mystery subgenre in which detectives and/or criminals are supernatural creatures (so far, I've only seen vampires and werewolves); or Young Adult.

"If you aren't confused, you don't understand the situation."

[magicnoire.livejournal.com]

Your work does sound like SF. If they are actively referred to as aliens, chances are it'll be SF. Now, I've read some fantasy novels (Melanie Rawn's Exiles) where the people populating the world are descended from aliens, but the fact is well in the realm of backstory and worldbuilding and not at all an issue, that those novels are very definitely fantasy.

Ancient civilizations, as Dan mentioned above, can be SF or fantasy.

You do need to be able to categorize your novel in the most general terms -- horror, fantasy, SF, etc -- when marketing because some agents/publishing don't accept/rep various genres. Breaking it down into the various subgenres isn't entirely necessary unless it's a hot market (ie paranormal chick lit), in which case it helps. But don't get too hung up on the labelling. Even if you peg it down as one thing in your marketing, if an agent takes on the project, they might market it as something else. And if it then sells to a publisher, they might market it as something else entirely. I will always remember how Kelley Armstrong's Bitten was originally marketed as a literary mainstream novel.

As a whole, dark fantasy is often a sticky term -- for some people, it's just another word for "horror" minus all of the stigma that's often associated with the term; for others, it's the intersection of fantasy and horror.

Subgenres don't necessarily mean blurring of lines. High fantasy, epic fantasy, sword & sorcery are all very fantasy subgenres and don't blur with anything else.

[jsgbits.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure about specific agents, but never market your novel to an editor. Simply putting your novel in one of the three major categories--sf, fantasy, horror--is enough. Let them make the decision how they think it ought to be marketed.

If you're pretty sure it's a crossover book, then you can say that: science fiction-horror, or science fiction-fantasy, or simply just say it's a crossover book with fantastical elements set in a future world. But I wouldn't go much further than that--let the book speak for itself. The editor may just disagree with you for the better.

[spaceoperadiva.livejournal.com]

I wish I could be helpful but all I can say is that I feel your pain. Subtle shades of genre make me crazy. Why are the "Dragonriders of Pern" books by Anne McCaffery considered SF? Even though she attempts to construct some biology for it all, that happens way later in the series and is very squishy science, IMO. Why is Kushiel's Dart by Jacqueline Carey in the Fantasy section? Yes, it's set in a fantastic setting but it reads very much like an edgy Romance to me.

My only good answer is ultimately it's what you say it is, and that the advice of a good agent who really knows the market would be invaluable.

[ogre-san.livejournal.com]

I have a series character who's a ghost hunter. The only thing is, he's a ghost hunter in a universe where the existence of ghosts is a proven, verifiable in the lab under controlled conditions fact. I consider the series sf. One of them was published this year in a "Best of" for fantasy stories. Did I argue? Nope. Defining genre, imo, is one of those things not worth fretting about. The story/book decides what it wants to be. Find a publisher who covers the range and let them worry about what to call it.

[davealaw.livejournal.com]

My feeling is that you state what you feels best describes your work, whether that is Fantasy or Science Fantasy or SF. So long as your hook and query letter is interesting enough the agent/publisher will ask to see more.

- Dave

[kimberlychapman.livejournal.com]

I'd say it's science fiction if you're dealing with aliens and theories of the universe. Magic can exist in that quite well because who is to say that aliens can't do magic?

Don't know if you saw my post a few weeks ago on genre labelling (http://www.livejournal.com/users/kimberlychapman/117349.html) specifically in terms of the SF versus sci-fi versus science fiction debate, but that issue alone (including the disparate views on the matter) illustrates just how hard it can be to nail down a genre.

You do need to declare a genre in a query letter, but as far as I know there's no rule that says you have to pick ONE. Describe it as best you can. Say it's science fiction with magical elements, or something like that. I've been describing the Colony books as speculative fiction/science fiction/police procedural/romance/mystery because it's about cops on a colony 700 years in the future who are trying to stop what was a liberal utopia from sliding into big-brother-ism but it's low-tech, character-concentrated, human-only, no magic stuff.

The important thing is to pay attention to what the publisher wants. This means 1) looking at what other books they sell and trying to determine how flexible they are with genre (some are all over the place, some are hyper-focused), and 2) reading the submission guidelines to see what they are looking for and what they don't want.

Some publishers will take cross-genre books but specify "no romance" or something like that. Then you can wonder wtf "romance" is...is it no nookie, no kissing, no nothing, or do they just mean they don't want the romantic plot to be dominant? Or maybe they'll specify that you must have a dominant female lead, or that the technological discussion must not be more than 25% of the prose, or that there can't be any horror, or whatever.

Once you know for sure what you've got, just compare it to the publisher's apparent desires and try to find the best fit. If they've said an absolute no to something you've got, don't waste your time. If there's room for question, though, it can't hurt to try.

The publisher for my first novel said they did science fiction and fantasy, with or without romance. They specified "no abuse" but also demanded strong leading ladies, and said they were particularly interested in plus-sized heroines. In my novel, the leading lady was definitely plus-sized, but at two different points she deals with abuse as an issue. I wasn't sure what the publisher meant...did they not want BDSM, or did they not want anything that touches on abuse at all? So I risked it and they published it, and later I asked the acquisitions editor for clarification and she said what that "no abuse" thing meant was they didn't want graphic rape, torture, BDSM, etc. Incorporating domestic abuse issues was totally fine to them, as long as the heroine won out over it.

So unfortunately the answer with publishers is that sometimes they're very unclear with what they want, and therefore it's less important that you nail down a specific, hard genre label than it is you write a great story. Genre is important, and being able to describe what your book is about is extremely important, but I wouldn't fret too much about the subtle nuances of genre labels.

[fjm.livejournal.com]

Try these: they come from the book I've just published on Diana Wynne Jones.

...seeking to distinguish three different but related genres whose narrative markers in this field are unstable, Gary Wolfe has written, “the genres of the fantastic… are more readily described as collective world-views than as patterns of repetitive action,” the collective world view of science fiction is “the geography of reason,” and that of horror, “the geography of anxiety; of fantasy, the geography of desire.” For myself, if science fiction is the literature that wants the universe to be rational, fantasy desperately wants to make it moral...

and

Conventional classifications of fantasy literature tend to fall into three camps. The first is the thematic: urban fantasy, indigenous fantasy, medieval fantasy—all label the tales according to what we might call the “landscape” of the text.
...
The second most common form of categorization has been through the cast of fantasy. This is seen most clearly in book shops where supernatural fiction has been categorized at least in part by the presence of ghosts, werewolves and other creatures of the night, into the shelves marked horror; while the presence of “other peoples” either of an elvish/dwarfish persuasion, or exotic orientals will send a book to the fantasy shelves. The difficulties can be seen in the random placements of authors such as Laurell K. Hamilton, some of whose work has all the accoutrements and cast of the supernatural fantasy, but includes elves for good measure.

The third category is the most traditional: High and Low Fantasy. High fantasy is traditionally a fully built world, with epic adventure, and almost always some kind of pseudo-historical setting. Low Fantasy is “this world” fantasy, often with an urban background. I have come to find this categorization rather unhelpful. Many of Jones’s secondary worlds are not medieval and contain no earth shattering conflict. Many of her “real” worlds—supposedly Low Fantasy—”contain supernatural intrusions into the ‘real world’” which are accepted by all participants as natural, rather than unnatural...


All of these have boundaries and blurrings. None of these should concern you *except* in the over letter. My only advice there is to avoid mentioning horror, it isn't selling too well at the moment.